The Need for a Game Editor & other thoughts

[ruby23]

Your points are valid. I have seen previous comments saying editor should only be usable in easy mode so nobody can cheat in online games. Now I have never bought the editor for football manager mobile because I felt the price was too high with limited options but I have enough idea about the editor, thanks to fmmvibe . So if you buy the editor, you'll find an extra bar "Edit" . So if anyone use the edit option, even once, the color of the "Edit" bar changes from grey to yellow as a symbol that the game save has been edited. So I don’t think it should be tough to do the same in Cricket Captain games, so if anyone ever uses the editor in normal mode, he won't be able to enter online game.

Like you said, if anyone wants to cheat in Single player mode, there are multiple of ways to do it. Why would someone waste their money to cheat in single player mode anyway? I personally want the editor to control newgens so that they don't replace real life players and also it's tough to judge young players with limited domestic matches unless you deeply follow them , so some players with high potential gets lower rating in cricket captain games, so as a gamer it feels unrealistic when those real life young players gets dominated by newgens.

Again, if anyone cheats in single player mode using the editor then it’s their own problem, why will others pay for it who only want the editor to add more realism?

Hit the nail on the head mate ????????

[ARW96]

Agree with the last few posts!

An editor is needed to stop this game becoming as frustrating and unrealistic as it is turning out to be. If people want to cheat using it, then so be it! It’s not the end of the world, if people want to be that sad to do that then that is up to them.

The point being is that the majority of people would use an editor for its intended purpose, which is to change the game to suit their wants and desires. E.g. not having to post on here if they find a player who they think should be rated higher.

Editor needed, otherwise I think people will leave the game after this year, especially with Cricket Coach 3 coming out! Which I believe will have an editor!

[Rafat23]

ARW96 that's the point. There will always be players who will try to cheat using editor . But as long as they aren’t cheating in online games that shouldn’t concern others. If someone buy the editor to cheat in single player mode , why should others care anyways ? Their money,their choice.

If the devs think bringing an editor means gamers won't upgrade to future versions, then I would say real lovers of the franchise will always buy the new game just for those little new features (the editor of fmm didn’t stop people buying the game). Or maybe they could think that enough people won't buy the editor, then I would say as long as the price is reasonable almost everyone will buy it first year just to check the editor, that should cover their cost of bringing the editor

[weetabixharry]

as long as they aren’t cheating in online games that shouldn’t concern others.

For me, this is the most important point in this whole thread.

I see a lot of people saying "I don't want to cheat, I just want to ..." (and then they describe something that could be considered as cheating). Reducing abilities is "cheating". Transferring players to new clubs to match real life is "cheating". Fixing the AI's weird batting order is "cheating". Reducing your own team's budget is "cheating". Artificially manipulating the game in any way is cheating. But the point is, it doesn't matter in single player mode.

Personally, I want to "cheat" because I'm not totally satisfied with playing the single player game the way it is. If you're satisfied with the game as it is, then don't download the editor.

Yep, I get that but even if the game isn't playable online you will still be able to look on the editor to see how good all the players are. Then you could create a game in normal mode and sign the players you know are best.

This is a good point - and I think it is the first constructive objection to an editor in this whole thread. This can be worked around quite easily by ensuring that all players that exist in the starting database have their abilities hidden. Then, only the (randomly generated) regens will have visible abilities. These regens won't be the same in anyone else's game, so knowing their abilities won't have any impact on anyone else. Currently, the unofficial editor goes one step further by making all abilities invisible (which makes it worse for people who want to use it honestly, but keeps the objectors happier).

[Cricstarz]

Having an editor with hidden abilities of players would still be better than no editor at all

[Jamesy1984]

For me, this is the most important point in this whole thread.

I see a lot of people saying "I don't want to cheat, I just want to ..." (and then they describe something that could be considered as cheating). Reducing abilities is "cheating". Transferring players to new clubs to match real life is "cheating". Fixing the AI's weird batting order is "cheating". Reducing your own team's budget is "cheating". Artificially manipulating the game in any way is cheating. But the point is, it doesn't matter in single player mode.

Personally, I want to "cheat" because I'm not totally satisfied with playing the single player game the way it is. If you're satisfied with the game as it is, then don't download the editor.



This is a good point - and I think it is the first constructive objection to an editor in this whole thread. This can be worked around quite easily by ensuring that all players that exist in the starting database have their abilities hidden. Then, only the (randomly generated) regens will have visible abilities. These regens won't be the same in anyone else's game, so knowing their abilities won't have any impact on anyone else. Currently, the unofficial editor goes one step further by making all abilities invisible (which makes it worse for people who want to use it honestly, but keeps the objectors happier).

Thanks this was the point I was trying to get across, obviously I have no issues with an editor for those who want it if it has no impact on those who don’t want it.

[galvatron]

For me, this is the most important point in this whole thread.

I see a lot of people saying "I don't want to cheat, I just want to ..." (and then they describe something that could be considered as cheating). Reducing abilities is "cheating". Transferring players to new clubs to match real life is "cheating". Fixing the AI's weird batting order is "cheating". Reducing your own team's budget is "cheating". Artificially manipulating the game in any way is cheating. But the point is, it doesn't matter in single player mode.

Personally, I want to "cheat" because I'm not totally satisfied with playing the single player game the way it is. If you're satisfied with the game as it is, then don't download the editor.



This is a good point - and I think it is the first constructive objection to an editor in this whole thread. This can be worked around quite easily by ensuring that all players that exist in the starting database have their abilities hidden. Then, only the (randomly generated) regens will have visible abilities. These regens won't be the same in anyone else's game, so knowing their abilities won't have any impact on anyone else. Currently, the unofficial editor goes one step further by making all abilities invisible (which makes it worse for people who want to use it honestly, but keeps the objectors happier).

This is a brilliant point... an editor is NOT needed and all the reasons given for an editor are to do with the game engine, which is far more important to improve than to have an editor.

[weetabixharry]

Thanks this was the point I was trying to get across, obviously I have no issues with an editor for those who want it if it has no impact on those who don’t want it.

I should probably add that I have maximum respect for people who play the game in its pure form. From time to time, I will play a savegame properly (no editing) and it's enjoyable in a different way. It probably says something about my short attention span that I spend so much time messing around with how the game works.

My point is that I agree it's reasonable to demand that an editor should not affect (or ruin) the game for other people. It's for this exact reason that I didn't even upload an unofficial editor for almost a decade. Then I only released the CC 2018 editor long after CC 2019 was released - and only for editing Easy mode games (not eligible for online play). For CC 2020, the unofficial editor has been released immediately, but it doesn't show any ability/potential attributes (and still only works for Easy mode games).

In general, the focus of the unofficial editor is moving away from player editing and towards scenario editing. For example, I'm hoping to create some historic World Cup scenarios to play in Tournament mode. Every (male) cricketer that ever played international cricket is in the CC 2020 player database, so there is huge scope for fan-created scenarios.

[Rafat23]

Yep, I get that but even if the game isn't playable online you will still be able to look on the editor to see how good all the players are. Then you could create a game in normal mode and sign the players you know are best. I'm not saying you personally will but some will.

Ok, I agree to your point to some extent but again you can still do this without an editor.
I have been trying to give some update about Bangladesh database, specially about the potential of youth players (like I said in previous post that I follow youth cricket a lot and would like to see the game rate them as they should be rated).
So I take a team of PSL and quick sim in a short time, and try to find how these youngstars are performing in the game. Now players perform somewhat differently in different saves , so I try a number of saves and just try to find some average and get some idea about how they are rated in the game and how they should be.

So the point is , what you are saying can still be done quite easily, even without the editor . And another point is, just because a player has high potential that doesn’t necessariy mean that he will perform same in every save. So you'll still have to figure out how they play in every new save

[Lynx54321]

Problem is you can get all the young prospects you want added by Sureshot but young players do not develop in game so you need an editor if you ever want them to break into your Bangladesh team in place of the instantly international class regens.

[weetabixharry]

Ok, I agree to your point to some extent but again you can still do this without an editor.
I have been trying to give some update about Bangladesh database, specially about the potential of youth players (like I said in previous post that I follow youth cricket a lot and would like to see the game rate them as they should be rated).
So I take a team of PSL and quick sim in a short time, and try to find how these youngstars are performing in the game. Now players perform somewhat differently in different saves , so I try a number of saves and just try to find some average and get some idea about how they are rated in the game and how they should be.

So the point is , what you are saying can still be done quite easily, even without the editor . And another point is, just because a player has high potential that doesn’t necessariy mean that he will perform same in every save. So you'll still have to figure out how they play in every new save

I think you're talking about a few unrelated things here.

1. You want to use your regional knowledge to help the developers improve part of their database. Great - I think they always appreciate this kind of help.
2. You also track how some of these players perform in Cricket Captain.
3. You don't think that an editor is necessary.

You give some good examples of what an editor would be very useful for and then say it wouldn't be useful. I'm confused.

[Rafat23]

I think you're talking about a few unrelated things here.

1. You want to use your regional knowledge to help the developers improve part of their database. Great - I think they always appreciate this kind of help.
2. You also track how some of these players perform in Cricket Captain.
3. You don't think that an editor is necessary.

You give some good examples of what an editor would be very useful for and then say it wouldn't be useful. I'm confused.

No, no you got it completely wrong here. Jamesy1984 said that that he thinks if people use editor in easy mode, then they would find out the real abilities of players and then use that knowledge in normal mode to sign the best players.

The point I tried to make is that this is still possible even without an editor. It might take some effort and time. But one can easily figure out which players are best to sign, they just need to quick sim few game saves and then you can have a really close idea about players ability, then you can start a save and sign the best players.

I don’t think anyone wants editor for this purpose. Because you don't need an editor to do this . That's what I said.

And another point was, even if someone use the editor to find player's ability, they will still need to figure out how certain players perform in a certain save. Because I have seen same players perform quite differently in different saves .

And Lynx54321 , that's the same reason I want the editor, because stats can give you some idea about players potential but stats can't tell everything about a player's ability . That's why most young players in the game never makes it to international cricket as in the game they are mostly rated by their stats.

[Alrounder80]

This is a brilliant point... an editor is NOT needed and all the reasons given for an editor are to do with the game engine, which is far more important to improve than to have an editor.

It's not 'needed', one can still enjoy the game without one. But it would vastly improve a lot of people's gaming experience because of how frustrating it is to have to constantly interact with the devs to get an accurate rating of all the players. Getting accurate ratings isn't a game engine problem so I'm not sure what you mean by all the reasons given are to do with game engine?

Currently only young regens dominate every version of the game for the more than 16 years I've played this game and current irl in-game youngsters have never dominated except for the ones who are touted to be great players. This might be a game engine problem, but one that seems to be incredibly complex to improve upon. So instead, it would be easier for us to use an editor to up young irl player's ratings each season manually to simulate realistic development. This is a clear example of how much easier it would be to overcome this what feels like a lifelong frustration for me.

In any case, it seems you're set on thinking an editor isn't needed so I'm not sure how constructive it really is debating this with you.

[weetabixharry]

It's not 'needed', one can still enjoy the game without one. But it would vastly improve a lot of people's gaming experience because of how frustrating it is to have to constantly interact with the devs to get an accurate rating of all the players. Getting accurate ratings isn't a game engine problem so I'm not sure what you mean by all the reasons given are to do with game engine?

Currently only young regens dominate every version of the game for the more than 16 years I've played this game and current irl in-game youngsters have never dominated except for the ones who are touted to be great players. This might be a game engine problem, but one that seems to be incredibly complex to improve upon. So instead, it would be easier for us to use an editor to up young irl player's ratings each season manually to simulate realistic development. This is a clear example of how much easier it would be to overcome this what feels like a lifelong frustration for me.

In any case, it seems you're set on thinking an editor isn't needed so I'm not sure how constructive it really is debating this with you.

I think the unofficial editor does most of the things you want. The comment by galvatron doesn't seem to follow on from any of the previous discussion (since everything I mentioned can be done with the unofficial editor, and isn't related to the match engine). However, maybe he's saying he would prefer the developers' time to be spent on improvements to the match engine (on top of all the essential stuff like new competitions and database updates) rather than an official editor. That at least could be a reasonable discussion to be had (even though I personally would be very much in favour of an official editor).

[Alrounder80]

The comment by galvatron doesn't seem to follow on from any of the previous discussion (since everything I mentioned can be done with the unofficial editor, and isn't related to the match engine). However, maybe he's saying he would prefer the developers' time to be spent on improvements to the match engine (on top of all the essential stuff like new competitions and database updates) rather than an official editor. That at least could be a reasonable discussion to be had (even though I personally would be very much in favour of an official editor).

What areas of the game the dev should mainly spend time on is definitely a worthwhile discussion to have. It's just from my perspective, an editor that includes functionalities for editing player abilities, player types, nationalities (so I can simulate players choosing to play county cricket in England and gain nationality at that country for example), etc etc, would be a massive improvement to the game for me. The problems of inaccurate player ratings, overly powerful regens, underrated irl youngsters, a lack of strong all-rounder regens being produced, lack of associate team player representation in the overseas player list for domestic circuits and countless other immersion breaking problems would all be manageable.

Comparing this to working on the game engine and improving the realism of matches by a minor amount just doesn't compare. I also don't see them ever improving player development (for both young and old players to an extent where it parallels real life closely. For example, sometimes you'll get players irl that get slowly better with age. Sometimes you'll get players that were average for a long while and suddenly improve from age 30 or so onwards. Sometimes players continue to be consistently good until age 38 or so. Sometimes a fast bowler will turn into a RFM (80ish mph) bowler when they get older. Sometimes players change from all-rounder to batsmen, or all-rounder to bowler, or bowlers to all-rounder, or any other combinations you can think of. People change their preference for positions all the time. The list of things that you'd need to change to get an accurate representation of player development is unending so it seems like a problem that can only be chipped away at, and we all know that the dev team is a small one so can't get lots of work done each year. I'd much rather an editor be worked on so we have a compromise where we ourselves can simulate a better player development system while they slowly work on that aspect of the game.

I think the unofficial editor does most of the things you want.

I have tried your editor! It was great to use for sure, but unfortunately since it only allows use in Easy mode, I don't use it much. Immersion is a big thing for me in CC and it being on Easy mode sort of ruins that for me.