The Need for a Game Editor & other thoughts

[weetabixharry]

I’m very happy to support the fan made editors for fixtures and the database, so if people want some help with that, feel free to ask (email us via the support page is probably the best bet).

Yes, I think that rather than lamenting what we can't do, it's worth thinking about what might be doable and in everyone's mutual interest. By "mutual interest", I'm thinking along the lines of:

1. In line with the game developers' ethos (e.g. no editing, or even viewing, of hidden attributes).
2. In line with what owners of the game want (e.g. useful features, which can't be used to cheat online).
3. Realistically doable by amateur programmers.

I'll have a think about it. I'm reluctant to seek support when I'm sure you're already overworked. But if I have something concrete, then I'll try sending a message.

[weetabixharry]

the need for an editor does not arise if the AI is adept at understanding real life scenarios.

An editor would still be needed for all the "what if" scenarios.

Also, I'm not sure that we (fans) are actually very good at identifying realism. I've read a lot of vague criticism online about Cricket Captain's realism, which usually falls into one of two categories: (1) Incorrectly inferring some general flaw, based on too small a sample size (e.g. "Kohli didn't score a fifty for 10 consecutive innings. That's completely unrealistic."), or (2) Seeing something happen once that "could never happen". I have never seen anything in category (2) that was less "realistic" than Ben Stokes' match-winning 135* at Headingley last year. Extraordinary things can happen in sport (and it's important that they do).

Regarding your comment that "sometimes all-rounders bat at 3 or 4 when this is never realistic", how about a bowler batting at 1 in a Test match and scoring 92?

Of course, the game isn't perfect. And, particularly with new releases, there will be genuine bugs that need fixing. But this is still the best game in its genre by absolutely miles. If there were anything better, then I'm pretty sure all those loyal fans would buy that instead.

[ruby23]

An editor would still be needed for all the "what if" scenarios.

Also, I'm not sure that we (fans) are actually very good at identifying realism. I've read a lot of vague criticism online about Cricket Captain's realism, which usually falls into one of two categories: (1) Incorrectly inferring some general flaw, based on too small a sample size (e.g. "Kohli didn't score a fifty for 10 consecutive innings. That's completely unrealistic."), or (2) Seeing something happen once that "could never happen". I have never seen anything in category (2) that was less "realistic" than Ben Stokes' match-winning 135* at Headingley last year. Extraordinary things can happen in sport (and it's important that they do).

Regarding your comment that "sometimes all-rounders bat at 3 or 4 when this is never realistic", how about a bowler batting at 1 in a Test match and scoring 92?

Of course, the game isn't perfect. And, particularly with new releases, there will be genuine bugs that need fixing. But this is still the best game in its genre by absolutely miles. If there were anything better, then I'm pretty sure all those loyal fans would buy that instead.

weetabixharry I take your point. Us fans do want our favourites players to do well all the time, and that's probably not realistic. Yes, I do get the point that a number 11 could bat as night watchman and score big. That's the beauty of the game (although the AI never does that in this game!). What I'm referring to is that a player like Stokes, Mahmudullah, de Grandhomme, etc. could possibly be promoted up the order for a few matches or even a series, but would they continue to bat above world class batsmen such as Root, Shakib or Williamson for a full season in spite of scoring almost the same as their career average?

Coming back to bowling, what I'm seeing a lot of is that when an all-rounder with a better bowling ability is chosen in a team, the 4th bowler bowls only 3-10 overs as the 5th bowler (depending on the scores) over an entire Test match of two innings.

While I appreciate that no game can be perfect, it's not wrong to point out these odd selections. You're right, maybe the capability of the AI is also limited, so there's not much one can do. This is the best game available to cricket fans right now. And I'm not sure we're going to get anything in this genre with so much detail for some time. So why not make it the best experience for the loyal fan? Anything wrong with the that?

[benj_2904]

but I’m generally not keep on the idea of exposing player abilities because it destroys the realism of the game. If you know how good someone is, then why spend time trying out players and assessing their performances in the game?.

that is a very very good point & one I do agree with to a great extent, especially with there being online games - however the game itself is short of ways to assess a player’s current ability and especially their potential. In real life you would have a plethora of coaches and scouts who would help assess players during nets or youth/2nd xi cricket without relying on pure stats to help guide you to the better players, so I can also see arguments for exposing a level of player abilities

I don’t think I’d want to have the ability to change players ability levels, but I’d definitely use a tool that gave me more information about a player, their potential & their strengths/weaknesses

[weetabixharry]

the game itself is short of ways to assess a player’s current ability and especially their potential.

I think this is a really good point. In Football Manager, for example, there are a few mechanisms for hinting at hidden attributes, such as a player's potential. One is coach reports and another is media reports. Perhaps one of these could appear someday in Cricket Captain.

Personally, I would hate for Cricket Captain to become too over-complicated (in my opinion, Football Manager is made worse by the hours of media interaction and agent negotiations you have to wade through between each game). However, maybe something as simple as a single pre-season coach report ("Your assistant has singled out Joe Bloggs and Bo Joggs as having the potential to develop into key first team players") could work. It might be fun to see your top young prospect hyped up in the Taunton Gazette, but only 1 or 2 per season maximum.

I don’t think I’d want to have the ability to change players ability levels, but I’d definitely use a tool that gave me more information about a player, their potential & their strengths/weaknesses

Yes, in the absence of in-game hints, this is exactly how I've used editors in the past. I once changed my star batsman's ability by accident and didn't know what the original value was. In the end, I just had to delete that savegame because in the back of my mind I would always know it wasn't right!

[benj_2904]

I think this is a really good point. In Football Manager, for example, there are a few mechanisms for hinting at hidden attributes, such as a player's potential. One is coach reports and another is media reports. Perhaps one of these could appear someday in Cricket Captain.

Personally, I would hate for Cricket Captain to become too over-complicated (in my opinion, Football Manager is made worse by the hours of media interaction and agent negotiations you have to wade through between each game). However, maybe something as simple as a single pre-season coach report ("Your assistant has singled out Joe Bloggs and Bo Joggs as having the potential to develop into key first team players") could work. It might be fun to see your top young prospect hyped up in the Taunton Gazette, but only 1 or 2 per season maximum.

!

The football a manager analogy is really apt - I haven’t played the full footy manager for a few years now, opting for the slimmed down mobile version because I don’t enjoy the over complicated systems. I really like option for a pre season coach report, perhaps tied into winter coaching

[Lynx54321]

Yes, in the absence of in-game hints, this is exactly how I've used editors in the past. I once changed my star batsman's ability by accident and didn't know what the original value was. In the end, I just had to delete that savegame because in the back of my mind I would always know it wasn't right!

I tend to agree, once you start adjusting ability stats etc it can ruin your save. However I do occasionally think there is a time and place for it. An example could be where you are half a season in to a save and in real life cricket a young player has exploded in county cricket and is doing really well. That player in game might be rubbish (or a batsmen instead of an all rounder for example). It can be nice to make a minor alteration on your current save rather than waiting for Sureshot to update the database and then starting a new save.

[ruby23]

I tend to agree, once you start adjusting ability stats etc it can ruin your save. However I do occasionally think there is a time and place for it. An example could be where you are half a season in to a save and in real life cricket a young player has exploded in county cricket and is doing really well. That player in game might be rubbish (or a batsmen instead of an all rounder for example). It can be nice to make a minor alteration on your current save rather than waiting for Sureshot to update the database and then starting a new save.

I'm in 2022 season, and already England have 2 regen players in Test matches! I'm sorry but I can't for my life imagining that happening. What's the point of an elaborate country cricket season, if the national team can't produce 15 world class Test players? This is a major problem Chris Child whether you want to accept it or not!

[Lynx54321]

I'm in 2022 season, and already England have 2 regen players in Test matches! I'm sorry but I can't for my life imagining that happening. What's the point of an elaborate country cricket season, if the national team can't produce 15 world class Test players? This is a major problem Chris Child whether you want to accept it or not!

I agree, regens should be generating with the same ability as the real 18/19/20 year olds already on game then having to develop like everyone else.

Biggest problem with the current game for me. If it's something you can fine tune Chris Child it would be good. It also invalidated a lot of the work Sureshot is doing crafting an accurate database.

[weetabixharry]

I agree, regens should be generating with the same ability as the real 18/19/20 year olds already on game then having to develop like everyone else.

Biggest problem with the current game for me. If it's something you can fine tune Chris Child it would be good. It also invalidated a lot of the work Sureshot is doing crafting an accurate database.

Just to provide an alternative perspective, superstar regens have always been my absolute favourite part of the game. My focus is always centred on signing one or two brilliant youth players (regens), then following through their whole careers until retirement. I don't think anything is as exciting as spotting a youth player with a 2nd XI batting average of 60+ in the end-of-season contracts. I only wish that more top bowlers could be found this way. In my experience, it seems like the great young batters are easier to spot (and sign) than the bowlers.

[Sureshot]

I'm in 2022 season, and already England have 2 regen players in Test matches! I'm sorry but I can't for my life imagining that happening. What's the point of an elaborate country cricket season, if the national team can't produce 15 world class Test players? This is a major problem Chris Child whether you want to accept it or not!

Haseeb Hameed debuted for England 15 months after his FC debut for Lancs. That's just off the top of my head.

I think there's some improvement to be had with the player development system, but I don't believe it's as bad as some are claiming it to be, a long way from that, in actuality. For every example, there is a counter-example.

Right now our priority is getting the 100 contracts and AI for that balanced. Then the 2nd innings AI for chasing targets.

Along with getting the game ready and released for iOS, Android and Mac. Once we've cleared that, I'll have a chat with Chris on this matter.

[ARW96]

I’ve been playing CC20 now since it was released and I have wanted to give it a fair shot before posting anything.

Two things that I will give full credit for is the ability to manage teams in other nations and DLS.

My views are simple. Unfortunately I just don’t think the game has moved on enough and most of these threads in this forum, e.g database feedback, players being over/under rated, can be sorted with one thing and that is an editor.

I have read all the articles about why they will not or can not release an editor, but I think this shows how far behind the times this game actually is. All I can do is beg that they actually create on and I’d happily pay more for the game with an editor.

The game still has the same problems as it has every single year:

- AI chasing is unrealistic
- AI selection is unrealistic
- AI match tactics are unrealistic
- regens are too good too soon and get selected over current cricketers
- coaching/training does nothing
- the finance side of the game is almost pointless

[weetabixharry]

All I can do is beg that they actually create on and I’d happily pay more for the game with an editor.

I would pay very silly amounts of money for an official editor. I can say this because I have spent some hundreds of hours developing an unofficial editor, which still can't do a lot of the things I would like it to do. However, in my case, it's not because I'm unhappy with any of the mechanics of the game. On the contrary, I think Cricket Captain is absolutely miles ahead of any other game in this genre (in distant second place is Cricket Coach, last updated in 2014). I just like trying out different scenarios which are only possible with an editor.

To be honest, of the six problems you listed, I'm not sure that many of those could be fixed with an editor. You could hunt down superstar regens and nerf their attributes. However, I think the other 5 are rather more deeply nested in the mechanics of the game and probably beyond the reach of an editor.

[ruby23]

Haseeb Hameed debuted for England 15 months after his FC debut for Lancs. That's just off the top of my head.

I think there's some improvement to be had with the player development system, but I don't believe it's as bad as some are claiming it to be, a long way from that, in actuality. For every example, there is a counter-example.

Right now our priority is getting the 100 contracts and AI for that balanced. Then the 2nd innings AI for chasing targets.

Along with getting the game ready and released for iOS, Android and Mac. Once we've cleared that, I'll have a chat with Chris on this matter.

Sureshot I partly agree with your assessment. Yes, there have been one-of instances of players coming out of nowhere. You mentioned Haseeb Hameed, I would say a prime example is Sachin Tendulkar too! Having said that, most of the countries have invested heavily into U-19 cricketers and A teams over the last few years. Its simply very rare for scouts to miss out on talent today whether they are 14 or 15 yrs of age.

What would be nice is that some degree of relevance is added to regen players. Is it possible to actually construct a list of U-13 and U-15 stars from every nation and allow them to come into the game early? Or are the regens AI driven (name & skill). If it's the former, I would like to help in developing this list of young players.

[ruby23]

I would pay very silly amounts of money for an official editor. I can say this because I have spent some hundreds of hours developing an unofficial editor, which still can't do a lot of the things I would like it to do. However, in my case, it's not because I'm unhappy with any of the mechanics of the game. On the contrary, I think Cricket Captain is absolutely miles ahead of any other game in this genre (in distant second place is Cricket Coach, last updated in 2014). I just like trying out different scenarios which are only possible with an editor.

To be honest, of the six problems you listed, I'm not sure that many of those could be fixed with an editor. You could hunt down superstar regens and nerf their attributes. However, I think the other 5 are rather more deeply nested in the mechanics of the game and probably beyond the reach of an editor.

weetabixharry you're absolutely right. What I've been doing with your CC18 and CC19 editors are exactly that! Hunting down the crazy skilled regens and lowering their skill. Other aspects of the game seem to be built into the mechanics of the game, like for instance, you can't really guarantee the selection of stars in your team or for that matter control where they bat in the order. However, its possible to control where they bowl by adjusting their skill level