Disgrace

[Lynx54321]

Hello I have played the demo of this years game and have played every game since about 2003 and after a few hours on the demo I feel the need to post something here.

I cannot help but think that each new release is another glorified database update, this years release comes packaged with updates to how twenty20 matches are played and inproved contract dealings etc, but to be quite frank the fact that the game has included twenty20 matches for several years without the features added this year is ridiculous.

Every year a new game comes out, an updated database and a meagre handful of new features and each time more money is expected. £15.99 for a database update and some features that should of been included as standard many years ago? Absolutely unbeleivable.

And the new Australian domestic set up? A big step forwards in ICC terms perhaps but how many years has it taken to get a second domestic set up on the go? Football manager adds multitudes of new leagues every year and I can go on the editor and add my own new ones for other nations in a matter of minutes. Different games with far different levels of interest and success but Football manager is the pinacle of sporting management games, you should be aiming to produce a game for cricket that is it's equivelant.

Every year cricket fans request more stats and more personalisation for players other than a name and a batting preference. Why after all these years can I still not play as Ireland, Scotland or another accociate side? In fact we have lost a nation to play as in Zimbabwe. They may not be Test playing nations but how hard can it be to add in the Intercontinental Cup for Accociates and give them some sort of system that allows domination at that level to result in Test status in the future? Whether this is realistic or not a game should be about taking your team to glory no matter what team that is.

I understand that the team work hard on each release, but there really is not enough content in each new game to justifying paying out 16 quid for it in my eyes. I am a big fan of the series but will stick to ICC 09 until there is a release that is a significant advancement over the current title, something worth paying for.

I want to see the domestic set ups of all the test playing nations, the ability to play as accociate countries, far more detailed recreation of each player. These things should be standard in a title that has been around as long as ICC. I actually feel that in all these aspects Cricket Coach is the superior game but I just prefer the feel and gameplay of ICC. To be fair the actual mechanics of the gameplay are beginning to get to the level that they should of been at in 2003, twenty20 matches in particular are good now, but it shouldnt of taken 7 years to get an accurate portrayal of a game of cricket. I am by no means saying this is a bad game, quite the opposite but I just cant part with anymore money for a game that improves so slowly. ICC's loyal fans deserve better.

[the_trademarc]

Hmmmm.....got a spare couple million pounds to lend them, so they can perhaps challenge up to 40% of Football Manager's budget?
Nothing significant can be done without money and time to produce. If ICC had the budget even close to something like Football Manager, I too, as well as the rest of the ICC world, would expect the drastic improvements that you demand.

It needs to be understood that the budget restrics the developments that can be made.
There is no doubt the game is very good for the budget they work on, and there is also no doubt it can be much better, but for the majority of it, without the mega-fundings of the likes of Football Manager, EA, Codemasters, etc., we are never going to see the dramatic improvements that you and many others command. It's something that needs to be realised, accepted and acknowledged when judging new releases.

[ashhh]

what has been done in the 12 months from the previous game is unnacceptable no matter what the budget. how this can be defended i have no idea

[Lynx54321]

Spot on Ashh, budget has little to do with what i am complaining about.

Making the twenty20 matches in the game actually realistic(finally) is the sort of content I would of expected in a patch after the release of whichever ICC first contained twenty20 matches, not several years later.

I dont understand how hard it can be to add new domestic set ups? Surely once you have done one the rest are more or less the same.

I am not saying it is a bad game, just that regardless of budget each year brings very little new content for 16 quid. I would like to see a game that felt new and different to last years edition, not a glorified database update. It is a rip off.

[the_trademarc]

Well its actually bloody hard to set up a new Domestic League, because, I'm not sure if you've realised it or not, its a completely different set-up to the County set-up.
You need a different set-up, different competitions, different rules, different fixtures, different outcomes, not to mention the implementation and creation of hundred's of new players, the research that gets put into assessing the players, determining an accurate skill level, and training levels.

And then you have the issue with getting the Rights to use the player's name, something EA and Codemasters do not have even with their billion dollar backing.

And while all that happens, you have the re-tweaking of the County circuit transfer system, the improvement of the AI, the maintenance and update of the database, and the improvement of the gameplay.

I think the problem most people have is that they do not know the situation the company is in and how they operate, and assume it is exactly the same as the bigger companies, which have executive boards, advertising, sponsorship, backings, contracts, and hundreds of people working within the company.
With Childish Things, it really is a year-by-year proposition. There is still the chance that we won't see ICC2011 if they do not have the funds to implement it. So as you can see, when put in a situation like that, it's about priorities and what needs to be done to sell the game, not individual requests, which can never be fully adhered too.

[Phylos Fett]

Well its actually bloody hard to set up a new Domestic League, because, I'm not sure if you've realised it or not, its a completely different set-up to the County set-up.
You need a different set-up, different competitions, different rules, different fixtures, different outcomes, not to mention the implementation and creation of hundred's of new players, the research that gets put into assessing the players, determining an accurate skill level, and training levels.

And then you have the issue with getting the Rights to use the player's name, something EA and Codemasters do not have even with their billion dollar backing.

And while all that happens, you have the re-tweaking of the County circuit transfer system, the improvement of the AI, the maintenance and update of the database, and the improvement of the gameplay.

I think the problem most people have is that they do not know the situation the company is in and how they operate, and assume it is exactly the same as the bigger companies, which have executive boards, advertising, sponsorship, backings, contracts, and hundreds of people working within the company.
With Childish Things, it really is a year-by-year proposition. There is still the chance that we won't see ICC2011 if they do not have the funds to implement it. So as you can see, when put in a situation like that, it's about priorities and what needs to be done to sell the game, not individual requests, which can never be fully adhered too.

I think the problem with some of the consumers out there is that they don't care what the situation is with the company. They want the product they want, at the cheapest price possible, and they will vote with their wallet if they don't like what they see. Product loyalty is a rare trait among consumers, which is sad, but true.

I am not buying this version, nor did I buy the last version. The reason being that I want to be able to play it on my netbook, which can't support the resolution required by the game now. I'm disappointed, maybe a little sad about it, but shit happens - I am sure that I'll be able to play future versions on whatever portable format I choose to use. Until then I'll use the older version that I have, and follow the progress of the game. I'll make suggestions. I'll get excited by the changes made.

But I understand that the company can only do what they can do. Other people don't, or won't understand. They can choose to not buy it, not contribute to the games progress, and miss out on a game (in the future) that they might like to have played. Personally, I'd donate to making the game better year-by-year, even if I can't currently play the latest version. But that is just me.

[rishi]

give suggestions in d suggestions thread of how this game culd bcome better n worthy of ur next purchase.

[the_trademarc]

give suggestions in d suggestions thread of how this game culd bcome better n worthy of ur next purchase.

He wasn't making suggestions, merely backing up his stance with an example.

[Scritty]

The amount of extras in the game this year is small, but one of them was probably a huge undertaking.
Setting up the Aussie league (which is an entirely different entity in every respect to the English) is quite an update.

This is the biggest thing this year, so fair enough.

On the other side of the coin, if you have no interest in playing the Aussie league, then the other differences are probably not worth updating for (Just MO of course) as you'd be pushed to see what else has changed.

Actual gameplay changes and additions are few and far between.
I'm reserving judgement as to whether I buy 2011, another league that I will never play won't be enough next time - no matter how hard it was to implement.

It'll be 10 months before we get a clue as to what 2011 will bring I should imagine, so best bet it to just get on with something else, and if the update looks good next April/May, then great, if not then comment then or those of us who are disenchanted can move on.

If you have a PS3 I recommend MLB10,for the PC OOTP11 - Avoid International Cricket 2010 (PS3 and Xbox) like it has scurvy.
It's another 3 bounce to the keeper, garbage fielding, badly though out control method, straight to £7 bargain bin of a game.

Already 3 copies in local (Redditch) "Game" Store in "Previously Owned" section. 2 of them were there the day after release!! Considering they only had 5 copies in the first place that shows how really bad this other game was.

Another year, another season of mediocrity for armchair cricket fans, Last time I was really excited about a cricket game was when the original ICC came out.

Still EvE online is now cheaper than ever as well. Good old pound hammering the euro. Nice
Scritty

[aus5892]

Some really strong and frankly ludicrous choice of words here, "disgrace," "unacceptable." We would love to give you a Football Manager clone that does everything you want it to and more. Unfortunately, it's impossible. You say you realise we have a small budget but you're not acting like you realise anything at all. Not only do we have a miniscule budget and a small dev team, but not even Chris works on this full time - he has a day job like the rest of us.

Think about it logically - if we could include more features in each version, why wouldn't we? Do you really think we sit and say "well let's just churn out the same game and they'll buy it anyway?" We want to fullfil all of your requests, because we want you to enjoy the game but also because it makes business sense - the better the game is, the more it will sell. Often though, we're stuck going on the 2 or 3 we identify as most important based on your requests.

It's not an ideal situation but it's our situation and there's nothing we can do about it. All we can do is try to make the best game we can and hope that you, the fans, continue to support and enjoy the product.

As it's been said, suggestions are a hell of a lot more useful than complaints. Threads like this do nothing for us and nothing for you. Threads that suggest exactly what the game needs to be worthy of your purchase are ones that we can work with - the stats/records thread has already been taken into account and we are hoping an overhaul of that will be possible.

[mereman]

I just going to add of course there are things I'd like to see. But I'd rather have ICC as it is then not have it at all.

I hope that it is successful so Chris can give up his day job and work full time on ICC.

[Scritty]

Think about it logically - if we could include more features in each version, why wouldn't we? Do you really think we sit and say "well let's just churn out the same game and they'll buy it anyway?" We want to fullfil all of your requests, because we want you to enjoy the game but also because it makes business sense - the better the game is, the more it will sell. Often though, we're stuck going on the 2 or 3 we identify as most important based on your requests.

I agree, let's stay constructive.

The Aussie set up is a huge thing. It runs nothing like the English one. Rules, contracts, playing conditions, availability...you name it, it's all completely different.

It's what the major "thing" was this year, and the advertising for the game clearly states what the updates are, and the ad is accurate.

Be dissapointed, that's fair enough, but the other expletives are a little over the top.
It's only a game, and a very reasonably priced one at that.

I bought CC2010 (the arcade game ) a few days ago. They wanted over £40 for a game that simulated some weird "cricket like" sport portrayed on screen by characters with serious body cramps and no cricketing ability.

Even then, I just sighed and took it back (lost £15 on the trade in...darn it)

Scritty

[Imager36]

Cricket arcade games have got nowhere near what they should be. Cricket 07 is the best I have seen, mainly because it includes English and Aussie county/state cricket and the modding community over at PC have worked tirelessly at making shots not go in the same place every time and the balls being far harder to read.

Anyway, I have to say that I have been disappointed with upgrades to this game in the past, but I feel that now the ghost of the Empire Interactive era is behind us, the game has made its first real steps forward, and, to me, this is a bit of a weird time to complain.

[Lynx54321]

I think you are partially missing the point of my complaint. I did not realise that nobody worked full time on the game so therefore I can understand why the game improves so slowly.

The problem is every year a new game is being released with more money being charged. What I am saying is that I bought last years game and I think considering what has been added this year how is it possibly worth paying another 16 pounds. And this statement can be applied to each game and its predecessor.

Why release a game and expect fans to buy it when it is more or less the exact same as the game from the year before.

I like the game but what I am saying is give me something to buy. It is not just dissapointment I dont think it is acceptable that this game is continuously released every year with very little to make it any different from the previous years game. So many people must buy the game once or twice then think "what did my money pay for, its the same game with a database update". I believe you are lucky to have a group of fans who look past this lack of any improvement and continually buy the game due a love of cricket, gaming and no real alternative to play. As each new game comes out the last is abandoned in terms of updates and the lack of an editor means players who want to play with up to date teams have to pay out again for an updated database, lets face it they get little else for their money.

[Sureshot]

I think you are seriously under-estimating the amount of work put in this year in to the development of the Australian league and the overhaul of the English system, which we've also put a lot of work in to. I can see how some people have viewed previous releases as just a database update, I don't think this is the case with 2010, yes many may not play the Aussie league, but I think people should, it's an incredible experience, not to mention that the English league is a lot better with the changes to not only the set-up, but the contracts. I think the AI is also significantly better, that's something I always took for granted in games before I got an idea of how it works. AI is the strength of the series and I think we'll always use it as a base to push forward, as I don't think anyone wants us to introduce several domestic leagues in one year and they are all pretty much unplayable, that benefits no one.

The comparisons to FM are without merit in terms of what we can do, firstly, we'll never match a football management game, football is a language of the world, cricket is played at a high level in 8 or 9 countries, and the biggest market, India, is going to be challenging to ever do well in given the ease of piracy out there. FM has 30-40 people working on it full-time with the backing of one of the largest publishers in the world, sales for FM'10 are at about 1.5 million and is the top selling game on iTunes in about 10 different countries iirc. ICC is made by about 4 or 5 people (I think) working from remote locations in the UK and Australia and part-time. We have to be careful, pardon the cricket related pun but, we have to bat to our limits, you can see from Championship Manager what happens if you throw more resources at a franchise that can't cope with it.

That said, we want to create the best game we can, I think ICC 2010 should be treated in a different light to previous releases as it's our first release where Chris has owned the IP rather than the (now defunkt) publisher. I'm quite proud of what we've achieved this year. The Australian league might take a while to get used to, but I think anyone can enjoy it, even us Poms.

The future development document I have collated from people on here and elsewhere is massive, we've got some brilliant ideas from here, as well as adding our own and developing customer ideas, I'm not going to promise anything, but personally, I'm excited about some of the things I'm seeing being suggested for the future and the forum itself has created a brilliant community that is helping us develop the series. It's frustrating for us too in many respects and we can understand it, there are things we want to do, but we have to be realistic to ourselves and you.