Proteas of the future. ICC 2013 should aim greater accuracy.

[Sureshot]

There is some superb information in here, all noted ready for 2013.

As you all know we have done a lot of work over the last year with SA and we've made a good start, but there's still more to do. Provincial games counting as first class is a major issue in how we determine player abilities, but we've got a good base to work from now.

I should get through the stats for the last year shortly, so I'll be able to use this data to make some improvements.

Parnell is an interesting case, he's very talented, but he's not been at all consistent throughout his career, bit early perhaps, but is he going to be one of these cricketers who never has the strength to cope with international cricket?

Outside of de Kock, how is the keeper situation looking? Has Tsotsobe's time come and gone? I know he's a good gloveman, but the times are demanding batting depth. When I last read AB was giving hints that he doesn't want to do it for much more than a year or so.

[Graham_5000]

On another issue, I notice that the majority of new players that step up to the senior team are regens (apart from the ones listed above)? I think that player development should be looked at, as there are many current players aged 21-25 who will improve over the next few years and step up to the international mark. I know that existing, young players can improve a bit in the game, but obviously by not very much seeing as they are generally surpassed by the regens. Of course regens should sometimes appear and almost immediately step up, but it shouldn't happen as the norm!

I think that perhaps international 2nd team (A teams) squads need to be worked out (just as an exercise), in order to determine who will replace the current first team, as Delport, Pienaar, Eccles, Razak and Paterson are unlikely to make the cut plus 6-7 other regens. I suggest starting with Thandi's list, as these players are either waiting in the wings, on the fringe or have incredible international potential!

I think Piedt and Simetu also need some nerfing as they don't really play First Class franchise games. They have great provincial stats, but I think without much franchise experience, they shouldn't be elevated as much as they have been..

[Graham_5000]

The list that Thandiwe made earlier is great with regards players who need improving. I have made a small list regarding doing the opposite:

I skipped 6 seasons with Zim (quickest team to skip seasons with as they play hardly any matches) to observe the evolution of the SA team. The following players became regulars and in my view need their abilities REDUCED!

Abdul Razak (not to be confused with Razzak!) becomes a stalwart of the South African team. He has a decent first class bowling average but nearly all of his matches have been provincial. He averages 68.66 with the ball in the only game he has played for the Dolphins.

Dane Paterson had a great bowling average early in his career but has been poor since moving to KZN. For the Dolphins he averages 40.37!

Obus Pienaar had decent batting and bowling stats last season, but this season (as mentioned earlier), he has been mediocre with the bat and barely bowled. I think his ability should be reduced – as I am sure the stats will automatically make it so – in the next release of the game.

Keagan Eccles becomes a stalwart of the South African team. He has a decent first class bowling average but nearly all of his matches have been provincial. He averages 70 with the ball in the only game he has played for the Dolphins.

Cameron Delport replaced Smith in 2016 I noticed. He averages 26 with the bat for the Dolphins!

Any thoughts with regards to reducing these players' abilities in the game? Vilas, de Kock and de Lange also make it into the team down the line, but I think their strong franchise performances justify the high ability they have in the game. One or two regens also made it in in my game by 2017. I would expect this to happen in real life too as there are probably plenty of quality youngsters we don't yet know..

[Graham_5000]

Obus Pienaar has always done the business for me at County level - opens bowling and bats at 5 for me on my Somerset save
My last season (2017) he was averaging 50+ with the bat and -25 with the ball

Any thoughts on him ?
Is he just better in the game than in real life ?

He looked promising but has had a poor season. He only bowled 16 overs in 9 FC matches and took 2 wickets for 43 runs in the season. He averaged 31 with the bat.

For some reason the Knights almost NEVER bowl him despite a great FC average. There must be a physical or technical reason for this? When he does bowl it is only for really short spells even when he is bowling well. I have watched him in Port Elizabeth against the Warriors..

There are about 10 players that the game over-rates I reckon - players that are often selected for SA e.g. Eccles. Piedt, Simetu and Deeb are too good also. They may develop, but they are great from the word go in the Proteas' team (they rarely make it into their franchise xi!)

Thandi's list is good I reckon though. Some of them are good in the game e.g. de Kock, whereas others are not good enough perhaps. Rossouw, van Zyl, Viljoen, Williams, Gqamane and Maharaj are not great in the game. I am sure after this season's stats are processed for the 2013 game they will be improved.

[Dick Van Dykes Disco Dog]

Obus Pienaar has always done the business for me at County level - opens bowling and bats at 5 for me on my Somerset save
My last season (2017) he was averaging 50+ with the bat and -25 with the ball

Any thoughts on him ?
Is he just better in the game than in real life ?

[metamorphic]

You should clearly be the SAF researcher for the game. I agree with many of the things you say and thought the South African research for the game has always lacked and has been in need of researchers for a while. You clearly seem a great fit for the rule.

[Graham_5000]

Viljoen is still listed as RFM on cricketarchive.com although perhaps it should be RF? If we had a massive batting injury crisis I reckon Rudolph would be recalled, alongside debutants Rossouw and Van Zyl. The bowling depth (spinners aside) is fantastic atm.

[Graham_5000]

I agree with most of this. The spinner issue is difficult I agree. I wish SA had tried Botha as a long term test option - he ties up one end and is economical - exactly what we need.

Simetu, Piedt and Eden Links look like good prospects but they seem to mainly be selected for shorter forms of the game T20s and List A. The reason for this is that the pitches all favour the quicks! I hope these 3 get a chance in more Franchise First Class games!

I think that national A sides would be great in ICC 2012 in order to develop ones understanding of the depth.. The only thing that would beat that is of course adding the SA leagues!!

[ThandiPienaar]

I have just discovered the forum! I love this game so much – 2012 is the first one I have bought. I think the next generation of Proteas are not always accurate in the game though, so this is my take on who to look at improving.

I am assuming the current SA team is:

Smith
Petersen
Amla
Kallis
De Villiers
Du Plessis
Duminy (Elgar as backup)
Peterson
Philander
Steyn
Morkel

If one analyses the Sunfoil Series for the last few years (the Franchise FC competition), it is possible to spot which players under the age of 28 have potential futures for the Proteas. ICC 2012 gets many of these players right, but some of them are terrible in the game, despite a great overall FC averages, great Sunfoil Series averages and even solid performances for SA “A”. There are many amateurs who do brilliantly in ICC 2012 – I urge the developers to use stats from the Sunfoil Series to determine FC ability. Using provincial averages is fine to a point – they can provide a guide in the same way that 2nd XI county averages can. Below is my list of SA players that have an international future in my opinion and on their Sunfoil performances:

Batsmen:

Stiaan van Zyl:

Averaged 61.18 with the bat in the 2012-2013 Sunfoil Series, he played in every match for the Cape Cobras apart from one when he was injured. His performances for SA “A” have been great and he has consistently performed over the last few seasons. His FC average is 43.29 with the bat (SR just over 49) and his part-time medium pace has bagged him 34 wickets @31.47.

Rilee Rossouw:

Averaged 48.5 with the bat in the 2012-2013 Sunfoil Series. He averages 43.56 overall in FC matches at a healthy SR of over 63.

Quinton de Kock:

Billed to be the new de Villiers, de Kock averaged 46.58 in this season’s Sunfoil Series. After averaging above 60 in previous seasons, he still managed to perform admirably despite this season’s especially damp, bowler-friendly weather! At 20 he has the odd technical flaw, but in all formats he is a great prospect. He averages 55.7 with the bat in FC competitions at a rampant 85.69 strike rate. He is also a fantastic keeper, fielder and all-round athlete.

All-rounders

Chris Morris:

Averaged 16.00 with the ball this season in the 2012-2013 Sunfoil Series. Having played in the shorter forms of the game for the Proteas, a Test call-up is not unlikely, especially when Kallis retires. He averages 34.28 with the bat and 23.21 with the ball.

Keshav Maharaj, bowler with potential to be classified allrounder:

A young slow-left arm bowler who bats competently, Maharaj averaged 9 with the ball after only a few matches. His FC average is 23.34 with the bat and 27.31 with the ball. His economy rate after 17 T20s is 5.39. You may think it is odd that I include such an inexperienced spinner on the list? There are not many quality spinners in South Africa in general, especially under the age of 28. Simon Harmer, Aaron Phangiso may perhaps compete with Maharaj for the Test side one day, but I think South Africa will look for the triple lock of spinners who bat a bit and control the run rate. Simon Harmer’s season resulted in a disappointing average of 42.42 and Phangiso did not play any first class matches for the Lions this season and does not have batting ability!

Ayabulela Gqamane, bowler with potential to be classified allrounder:

Averaged 14.16 with the ball for the Warriors in the 2012-2013 Sunfoil Series after playing in most of the matches. Gqamane averages 20.13 with the bat and 17.91 with the ball, so only just makes onto the all-rounder list as he is young and his batting should hopefully improve. With a bowling strike rate of 31.38 (27 this season), this swing bowler is a phenomenal bowling prospect for the Proteas.

Bowlers:

Kyle Abbott:

Averaged 15.36 for the Dolphins in the 2012-2013 Sunfoil Series. His form resulted in him being called up to replace the injured Philander for the Proteas final test against Pakistan, where he took 9 wickets on debut, including 7-29 in the first innings. After the performance, Cricketarchive re-classified him as a fast-medium bowler, pending adjustment to fast bowler, as he consistently bowls in the mid 140kph zone. He is listed as a medium in Icc 2012 – could this be corrected for the next version? His FC batting average is 19.19 and bowling average 20.74.

Beuran Hendricks:

Averaged 17.74 this season in the 2012-2013 Sunfoil Series. After net sessions with Donald, the left armer was described as a highly promising bowler, capable of swinging the ball at pace. He averages 6.69 with the bat and 20.78 with the ball in FC matches.

Hardus Viljoen (GC Viljoen):

Averaged 21.51 in this season’s Sunfoil Series. He played in T20s against New Zealand late in 2012. Viljoen bowls at an intimidating pace, and Cricketarchive have duly responded, re-classifying him as a fast not a fast-medium. His FC batting average is 16.3 and his bowling average is 26.3.

Calvin Savage:

Averaged 26.35 in this seasons’s Sunfoil Series. This young 20 year old also bowls at a terrific pace. He is certainly a decent prospect, especially as his action is so smooth, despite his height. He averages 18.88 with the bat and 26.35 with the ball in all FC competitions.

Lizaad Williams:

Averaged 21.42 in this season’s Sunfoil Series. His FC average is 8.28with the bat and 19.79 with the ball.

Marchant de Lange:

Missed the Sunfoil Series through injury, but in the T20 competition, his new, smoother action looks great and he generating more speed and bounce than previously!

In addition to these players, there are of course a number of fringe players over the age of 28 (Rudolph, Puttick, McKenzie, Birch, Tahir, Kleinveldt etc). Then there is also Parnell who has started to find form once again – who knows what will happen with him. What do you think about my list?