Player attributes - skills and potential

[liquefry]

Hi, just got this game and kind of enjoying it, but I wanted to ask some questions as I think I might be missing something.

I cannot find any indication of player skills - apart from the general "player profile", how do you work out what the skills of a player are? At the moment, I'm picking on form and my own knowledge of which players are any good - I can't see any way to tell in game whether a young player is actually worth their spot without giving him a go.

Training - linked to the question above, how do you work out which skills the player actually needs if you cant see what they are good at and what needs improvement? More importantly, how do you work out their potential? There doesn't appear to be any indicator of whether they are going to be a superstar or a dud.

I am a long time FM / CM player and am looking for these basic functions - the reason I play these games is to carefully nurture my teams and manage my budget through identifying and training talent through to the first team. The satisfaction of winning the league with a team of homegrown youngsters is nice. This appears to be almost entirely guesswork in CC2014, I'm just spending all my limited training sessions building technique of every young player with a hope that some of them are decent, then giving them a few games to work out whether they can hack it. Kind of a random approach.

[KGKOOLKAT777]

Hi,

In answer to your first question, I find second team averages are a good indicator but also just trial and error. If you go into a player's profile and hit personal, you can find their strengths and weaknesses. But in general, I can give you some tips that I posted on another thread.

We all were terrible to start with. The best advice is don't give up. I could give you some advice but you will work out your own tactics. A couple of basic things though.

1. Trust your instinct - use your real life skills to work out situations

2. Be sensible - make sure you don't do anything silly

3. Manage your budget well - pick a balanced team accounting for injuries and national call ups

4. Never get complacent or give up - cricket captain is strange in which you are never sure of the outcome, much like real cricket.

5. Only tactic advice - go completely aggressive while batting in T20 and completely defensive while bowling in T20 - works for me

Hope this helps

[Alrounder80]

2nd XI averages and what salary demands a youth player has is the best way to find talent. Generally a 2nd XI batting average of 50+ means there is a fair amount of potential and a bowling average of, say, 25 or below is also a good starting point. Obviously, the younger the player is, the longer he has the chance to develop and for you to use technique coaching on him until around the age of 25 (when the effects of technique training apparently aren't suggested/as effective).

In saying that, it's still down to a certain degree of luck whether certain players will make it in whatever level, as happens in real life.

With regards to what skills a player needs, generally the opposite of wherever they have a preference for batsmen. If a player has a strong/slight leg side preference, train his offside game, if he likes back foot, train front foot, etc. Bowling is not as clearcut and involves what you prefer a bowler to have, whether that be wicket taking ability, keeping the runs down or having the ability to stick to the plans you've set. I can give you a general idea of things though. Firstly look at the bowlers economy; anything touching 4 rpo in 2nd XI is too high so might warrant defensive bowling training. Also strike rate; hovering around mid 40s is decent for a youth player in 2nd XI cricket. If too high, then train aggressive bowling. Finally, if you want bowlers to either exploit batsman's weaknesses by bowling to the opposite areas of their preferences or to bowl to your field in general, use accuracy training.

[Russkly]

2nd XI averages and what salary demands a youth player has is the best way to find talent. Generally a 2nd XI batting average of 50+ means there is a fair amount of potential and a bowling average of, say, 25 or below is also a good starting point. Obviously, the younger the player is, the longer he has the chance to develop and for you to use technique coaching on him until around the age of 25 (when the effects of technique training apparently aren't suggested/as effective).

In saying that, it's still down to a certain degree of luck whether certain players will make it in whatever level, as happens in real life.

With regards to what skills a player needs, generally the opposite of wherever they have a preference for batsmen. If a player has a strong/slight leg side preference, train his offside game, if he likes back foot, train front foot, etc. Bowling is not as clearcut and involves what you prefer a bowler to have, whether that be wicket taking ability, keeping the runs down or having the ability to stick to the plans you've set. I can give you a general idea of things though. Firstly look at the bowlers economy; anything touching 4 rpo in 2nd XI is too high so might warrant defensive bowling training. Also strike rate; hovering around mid 40s is decent for a youth player in 2nd XI cricket. If too high, then train aggressive bowling. Finally, if you want bowlers to either exploit batsman's weaknesses by bowling to the opposite areas of their preferences or to bowl to your field in general, use accuracy training.

Thx Alrounder80; useful advice, especially since the 2014 manual doesn't really go into much detail about all the new coaching options.

I have a few questions, if I may, please:

1.0 How long does it take to coach a specific technique element, e.g. playing spin, off-side shots, bowling accuracy, etc? Is there a rule of thumb, or is it random? Are we talking weeks, months or more?
2.0 How do you know if/when the technique coaching has been successful? I have received messages about bowling technique improvements but nothing yet about batting. Does the text in the Player Profile change to reflect that a batsman no longer, say, has a strong off-side preference, because you've coached him on leg-side play?
3.0 Given the finite number of (valuable) coaching sessions is it actually worth doing technique coaching, or is it more effective simply to do batting/bowling practice to improve/maintain form?
4.0 What about "General Technique" coaching? What does this actually do, and is it worth it compared to more specific technique coaching?
5.0 How much difference does it make to bowl to the opposite of a batsman's strengths? I've been playing ICC since it first started, and I'm still not convinced that pitching it up to a batsman, who apparently prefers short-pitched bowling, actually makes any difference. And how about the sides of the wicket? I ask, because bowling leg-side is perceived to be more aggressive for some reason, but what if you want to bowl defensively to a batsman with an off-side preference?!
6.0 On a different note, does the highlights level have any impact whatsoever on how the game plays out?! Stupid question probably, but I find myself batting with medium highlights, because I seem to fare worse with highlights off! Probably just superstition, right?

I hope you can help, because the manual doesn't seem to offer much in these regards.

Cheers,

R

[Alrounder80]

Thx Alrounder80; useful advice, especially since the 2014 manual doesn't really go into much detail about all the new coaching options.

I have a few questions, if I may, please:

1.0 How long does it take to coach a specific technique element, e.g. playing spin, off-side shots, bowling accuracy, etc? Is there a rule of thumb, or is it random? Are we talking weeks, months or more?
2.0 How do you know if/when the technique coaching has been successful? I have received messages about bowling technique improvements but nothing yet about batting. Does the text in the Player Profile change to reflect that a batsman no longer, say, has a strong off-side preference, because you've coached him on leg-side play?
3.0 Given the finite number of (valuable) coaching sessions is it actually worth doing technique coaching, or is it more effective simply to do batting/bowling practice to improve/maintain form?
4.0 What about "General Technique" coaching? What does this actually do, and is it worth it compared to more specific technique coaching?
5.0 How much difference does it make to bowl to the opposite of a batsman's strengths? I've been playing ICC since it first started, and I'm still not convinced that pitching it up to a batsman, who apparently prefers short-pitched bowling, actually makes any difference. And how about the sides of the wicket? I ask, because bowling leg-side is perceived to be more aggressive for some reason, but what if you want to bowl defensively to a batsman with an off-side preference?!
6.0 On a different note, does the highlights level have any impact whatsoever on how the game plays out?! Stupid question probably, but I find myself batting with medium highlights, because I seem to fare worse with highlights off! Probably just superstition, right?

I hope you can help, because the manual doesn't seem to offer much in these regards.

Cheers,

R

1. I'll have to get back to you on this as I've never tracked how long it takes. Sometimes, I've know a player to immediately improve technique (whether it be batting or bowling), and sometimes they never seem to improve.

2. You will receive a message telling you one's batting or bowling has improved. And yes, the text changes the way you've stated.

3. Personally, I use possibly 2, maximum 3, technique coaching to my 3 best young players. But this is only if I think they're actually good enough to eventually be in my 1st XI. I suppose if you've got very limited number of coaching sessions, it's best to stick to batting/bowling practice.

4. Presumably it very slightly improves all aspects of a player's batting/bowling. If you don't want to change any preference for a batsmen or don't find any major problems with a bowlers S/R, economy rate, etc, use this I guess?
The thing is, there must be a certain disadvantage to technique coaching a player. If someone prefers pace bowling, and you train facing spin bowling, it would mean the batsmen is not as good at facing pace. If you train offside to counter leg side preference, the batsmen will not be as good on the leg side. And I don't know whether a batsmen being more naturally aggressive means he's more prone to giving his wicket away. Someone would have to confirm this...

5. Again, I doubt any can say with any surety. I'm the same as you in the sense that I don't change the length according to batsmen's preference as it never seems to have helped me. I stick to a good length regardless. I do bowling to opposing sides of batsmen's strength though. This seems to help a lot. But once the batsmen is settled, I tend to bowl straight. If you want more details, I can copy and paste from another thread what method I use for FC and OD/ODI games. It works pretty well, if I do say so myself

6. I strongly believe it does make a difference. It can't be more clearer for me. But Chris or Sureshot told me outright that it doesn't. In any case, I'll just tell you my experiences. In T20 games, if I use no highlights, I bat like horribly. So I'm forced to bat with medium highlights. I also always click "next ball" for T20 games, which helps too. It's not even because it helps me react to the game situation, it just seems to help in terms of performance. In OD/ODI games, I use medium highlights for batting and actually don't use "next ball". In FC, it doesn't seem to matter what highlights are chosen, if any.

In saying all this, it might all just be superstition (as you've said) and further evidence of my OCD! I'd be the first to admit that all the little things I do to help improve performance in this game is odd, to say the least.

[Russkly]

1. I'll have to get back to you on this as I've never tracked how long it takes. Sometimes, I've know a player to immediately improve technique (whether it be batting or bowling), and sometimes they never seem to improve.

2. You will receive a message telling you one's batting or bowling has improved. And yes, the text changes the way you've stated.

3. Personally, I use possibly 2, maximum 3, technique coaching to my 3 best young players. But this is only if I think they're actually good enough to eventually be in my 1st XI. I suppose if you've got very limited number of coaching sessions, it's best to stick to batting/bowling practice.

4. Presumably it very slightly improves all aspects of a player's batting/bowling. If you don't want to change any preference for a batsmen or don't find any major problems with a bowlers S/R, economy rate, etc, use this I guess?
The thing is, there must be a certain disadvantage to technique coaching a player. If someone prefers pace bowling, and you train facing spin bowling, it would mean the batsmen is not as good at facing pace. If you train offside to counter leg side preference, the batsmen will not be as good on the leg side. And I don't know whether a batsmen being more naturally aggressive means he's more prone to giving his wicket away. Someone would have to confirm this...

5. Again, I doubt any can say with any surety. I'm the same as you in the sense that I don't change the length according to batsmen's preference as it never seems to have helped me. I stick to a good length regardless. I do bowling to opposing sides of batsmen's strength though. This seems to help a lot. But once the batsmen is settled, I tend to bowl straight. If you want more details, I can copy and paste from another thread what method I use for FC and OD/ODI games. It works pretty well, if I do say so myself

6. I strongly believe it does make a difference. It can't be more clearer for me. But Chris or Sureshot told me outright that it doesn't. In any case, I'll just tell you my experiences. In T20 games, if I use no highlights, I bat like horribly. So I'm forced to bat with medium highlights. I also always click "next ball" for T20 games, which helps too. It's not even because it helps me react to the game situation, it just seems to help in terms of performance. In OD/ODI games, I use medium highlights for batting and actually don't use "next ball". In FC, it doesn't seem to matter what highlights are chosen, if any.

In saying all this, it might all just be superstition (as you've said) and further evidence of my OCD! I'd be the first to admit that all the little things I do to help improve performance in this game is odd, to say the least.

Thanks for your detailed reply, Alrounder80.

It seems that there are questions unanswered! Perhaps the devs would care to enlighten us a bit...

As for your guidance, please do post your thoughts or PM me - I've been playing ICC since it started (some years more than others admittedly), but I've yet to really understand how to master it, and the new technique stuff, whilst welcome, simply raises more questions for me.

I'm with you on lengths - never seems to make a huge difference. As for bowling to specific sides of the wicket, the jury's out for me, and it seems counter-intuitive to bowl to the leg side of a player with a preference for that side because you want to bowl aggressively (the manual states that leg-side bowling is more aggressive and off-side more defensive).

Btw I only play FC, since I've never ever got on with limited overs stuff, either in real life or in game! Very much a traditionalist.

Looking forward to hearing how you do it, because I've played 4 seasons as Glos on normal level, and I still haven't got promoted to Division 1 yet! My bowlers always seem to lose form quickly, even with coaching, and they are rarely above 3 stars at best, which means that none of them takes more than 50 wickets per season!

[Alrounder80]

Thanks for your detailed reply, Alrounder80.

It seems that there are questions unanswered! Perhaps the devs would care to enlighten us a bit...

As for your guidance, please do post your thoughts or PM me - I've been playing ICC since it started (some years more than others admittedly), but I've yet to really understand how to master it, and the new technique stuff, whilst welcome, simply raises more questions for me.

I'm with you on lengths - never seems to make a huge difference. As for bowling to specific sides of the wicket, the jury's out for me, and it seems counter-intuitive to bowl to the leg side of a player with a preference for that side because you want to bowl aggressively (the manual states that leg-side bowling is more aggressive and off-side more defensive).

Btw I only play FC, since I've never ever got on with limited overs stuff, either in real life or in game! Very much a traditionalist.

Looking forward to hearing how you do it, because I've played 4 seasons as Glos on normal level, and I still haven't got promoted to Division 1 yet! My bowlers always seem to lose form quickly, even with coaching, and they are rarely above 3 stars at best, which means that none of them takes more than 50 wickets per season!

FC and Tests: I start batsmen off at 2 bars and move onto 3 when the settled bar is about half filled. Only when I need quick runs do I increase onto further aggression bars. In Tests, I might start off openers at 1 bar for 3/4 overs and move onto 2 and so on.

Bowling wise, you should ideally have 4 bowlers doing most of the bowling. Any extra all-rounders are a bonus. I always start off with 4 bars and bowling to the opposite side of the batsmen's strength. So if, for example, a batsman has a strong/slight legside preference, I'll set at four bars and bowl outside off stump. Once batsmen get to 25+ runs, I'll reduce the bar to 3. Once they cross about 60, I'll go down to 2 bars and experiment by going around the wicket and potentially also changing up the length according to what length the batsmen prefers, etc. If you're struggling to get the tail out, use any decent part-timer you have in your team for a few overs. I also recommend always having a decent spinner in the side. They tend to be pretty economical (for me, at least) and can get through lots of overs which allows the fast bowlers to rest. You may also use spinners against batsmen who prefer pace and vice versa.

Compared to the longer format, T20s and ODs are much harder.

OD: I start of openers at 4 bars for few overs before moving them onto 5 until the power plays are introduced. Usually 6 bars for the PPs and 7 from maybe 42 over onwards and full aggression for the last 3 overs. You can adjust the aggression depending on the run rate and how settled the batsmen are. One thing I tend to do is identify the weak bowlers in the opposition. You can do this by checking their current season stats (as well as career stats). If they are poor; the bowler is either out of form, or not that good. So once you've done this, attack that bowler(s) (say one more aggression bar than the other bowlers). Opposingly, if you come across an absolutely brilliant bowler, you may think about playing at a lower aggression against that bowler. Just be proactive. And rather than skipping the whole over (by pressing 'play over'), click the 'next ball' option each time, which is right beside 'play over'. The highlight options can be whatever you prefer, but by clicking 'next ball' every time, you're able to react to what's happening much more effectively.

"In 20/20, I've had more success by starting both batsmen on 7 bars and keeping them there until the last four or so overs. Then if enough wickets remain, I put them on 8 bars." (Taken from GrahamB)

I haven't talked about the bowling in OD and T20s because I use specific custom fields which help a lot in tying down batsmen in the middle overs. The fields would be quite hard to describe to any degree of accuracy!

[ThandiPienaar]

Surely technique training improves players till they are about 30? 25 is really young to stop improving.

[LastWicket]

Surely technique training improves players till they are about 30? 25 is really young to stop improving.

General technique seems to become less effective at around 25. Once they hit that age you can still improve their weaknesses by concentrating technique training, such as improving their offside shots if the are strong on the legside.

[LastWicket]

I haven't talked about the bowling in OD and T20s because I use specific custom fields which help a lot in tying down batsmen in the middle overs. The fields would be quite hard to describe to any degree of accuracy!

Is it possible for you to upload your custom fields somewhere for download as would love to see them.