International call ups

[benj_2904]

Is it just me who gets a bit annoyed with the AI calling up youth players the second you find them before you even get a decent chance to use them?

I’m 5 years into a save & I currently have 4 players 25 or under who are playing for England - each one of them is either promoted from my academy, or signed from the youth screen & within a month of the new season are called up to play test cricket (& then play almost every game!), which just doesnt feel realistic bar the odd once in a generation cricketer… and even then they probably play a season or so at county level?

I even had one guy who signed a contract and was playing IPL cricket before he’d even played a senior game of T20 cricket & he’s currently available for 13% of a season having played 44 out of 172 of his total games for my club (& he hasn’t even done that well for me)

Not sure how you resolve it & probably should go in a suggestions first future editions, but I was curious if it frustrates others as much as me?

[Cam]

What annoys me is I have 2 spinners both guns. 1 is always away on international duty but the one who doesn't get picked is better. So even when the international spinner comes back to play domestic. I dont pick him.

[cde]

I find it both unrealistic and often damaging to the players. Some do ok but a great many never fulfill their potential because they get called up with almost no playing experience or form. There should be some sort of limit they have to reach before the AI picks them. They should also be in some sort of form, I have had a number of great players I who are almost unplayable once the season begins and the get called up. They come back in poor form and then the AI keeps on picking and playing them, hammering their form until they are of no use to anyone.

Cam I used to find this a bit maddening but now I find it a blessing - I get to keep my best player!

[Chris_]

I'm used to it at this point.

From previous versions I know if I sign a youth bowler with a 2nd XI average of 15-16 or a youth batsman with an average in the high 60s+ that they're likely to be international players. Obviously in the real world you'd see them develop a bit and show their quality at County level before being called up but the game clearly goes by ability and some players simply have the ability to hit the ground running. With these players I hope to get a season out of them before they start getting call-ups but I'm prepared for that to happen at any time, even if their availability is shown at 100%.

It could also be due to the fairly wide age range in youth players. I tend to find those still at 17-18 don't get called up immediately, but a youth player you sign who appeared in the game already aged 21 seems to already be hitting their prime and is a candidate for immediate call-ups if their ability is good enough. I've also had some around 22 in my youth options I thought were fresh players but realised they'd played for another county the previous year, or at least been on their books.

These days I don't include international contracted players in my plans. If they're available and good form then great, that's a bonus and I'll use them if I think they'll be a benefit, but as cde said half the time they return in terrible form. If my regulars are in good form and winning I'm not going to drop one just to fit an out of form international player for the sake of it. I will say that the new availability details at contract time are a help, and seem fairly accurate. I tend to make notes on which players get called for which formats so I have an idea on who might be away during international T20s but still around to use the rest of the time, and so on.

One unusual thing I've found with CC21 is a bowler who keeps getting contracted to England, then not, then contracted again but often doesn't play a single game even when contracted for the year. Then I have another (newgen) bowler who's never been contracted but last year he was getting called up for various formats, but no contract at the end of the year. Hopefully he doesn't get the same call-ups this year, but with a Test average of 24.67 at 38.0 SR I suspect he might! Normally I'm happy to see my dependable players not listed as ENG when it comes to contract time but if they get called up anyway I'd rather just have them contracted so I don't have to pay the wages for a player who's always away.

I've found that when you're focused on the County side of things it's a case of trying to find the players who are good enough to do really well at County level without being great enough to be regular Internationals. You can do a lot with "almost there" players. Obviously I still sign youths with extremely good stats, but that comes back to the early point of just hoping to use them as much as I can before they get called up and seeing them as an occasional bonus once that happens and they get contracted.

The worst case for me is definitely the really good player on a decent salary who doesn't get a central contract but is still away a lot (and often at key times) because their ability is seeing them get called up.

[cde]

Those call-ups are the worst! Personally I would like to see the central contracts dropped altogether and replaced with a pay-per call-ups system.

It would get around the problem you have been describing but also avoid those times when you sign a young player on 23,000 on a three year contract and they are called up after a couple of years. They can be spending almost all the season with the national side but all you get as compensation is 23,000, not enough to sign a like-for-like player.

[Wilted]

I'm not sure if it's still a thing but there used to be a in-game tip that said players won't perform perform at their potential until they have played at least 15 FC games. Would it be possible to implement this into the AI selection so players don't get called up until they have played at least 15 games in the respective format, Sureshot? I think it's very rare that players have played less than 15 games before playing international cricket.

Those call-ups are the worst! Personally I would like to see the central contracts dropped altogether and replaced with a pay-per call-ups system.

It would get around the problem you have been describing but also avoid those times when you sign a young player on 23,000 on a three year contract and they are called up after a couple of years. They can be spending almost all the season with the national side but all you get as compensation is 23,000, not enough to sign a like-for-like player.

I've only noticed it in my most recent save but I had domestic players in my team have an availability of 1% which solves the contract issue for me.

[Lynx54321]

My understanding is that players are indeed supposed to have played a certain number of games (I have 14 in my head for some reason) before a callup.

I have fed back to Sureshot that this rule currently doesn't discriminate between red and white ball games so a player can theoretically play a handful of first class games only then get a t20 callup. Sureshot has taken this away to look at with the dev team.

[galvatron]

It can be frustrating but if you think that some of these regens pop up and they're already 21 or 22 and getting into the England team at that age is not that unrealistic.

Root was in the England team from 22 and many of the regens are all time great ability so it does make sense that they get into the international side.

Jimmy got his debut by 21. It's just that in reality we see these players in youth cricket and then in county championship but in the game they regen already at an older age...

Kane Williamson another who test debut was at 20...

[Chris_]

The other thing with those at 21-22 is that they may appear in your youth list but they've often played for another county the previous year and not been kept on for whatever reason. This is particularly the case for those who appear in the 2nd bidding round.

The age itself isn't too unusual - as you say there are examples of players getting International duty at 20-21 and even more at 22. If I sign a player around that age with excellent stats (like a bowler with 15-16 bowling average in the 2nd XI) I expect to see them called up very soon as they're most likely going to be of high enough quality depending on who's already in the national team. If they've already had a year with another county before joining me I expect it even more.

What usually happens for me if I sign someone of that age/quality is I get to use them for the first half a year, maybe a full year, and then the call-ups start. After a couple of years they get a central contract and they get added to the batch of players who're technically part of the squad but realistically might only feature in a couple of games at the start or end of the year if I feel I need them.

The annoying ones are when you sign a youth player with great stats who hits the ground running and performs the way you hoped they would. The international call-ups start and they miss more and more games depending on how many formats they get picked for (usually Tests to start with) but they don't get central contracts despite being picked a lot. When their contract expires they want 60,000 - 70,000 to renew but their availability is only 40% or less. At that point I find it very hard to keep a player on the books for that amount of salary when you know that much budget will be unavailable for selection more often than not. At least if they get a contract it doesn't feel so bad.

[Chris_]

Perfect example of an expected early call-up in my current game.

I signed a youth batsman (22 years old) with a 2nd XI average of 72, which was crazy to see, despite only wanting a 27,500 wage. He already had a FC average of 77 after playing 10 matches for another county the previous year. I have no idea why they let him go! 1089 runs at 77.79 average with a 57.2 SR was brilliant for his debut season.

He played the first 7 FC games for me after signing, scoring 537 at an average of 53.7. He was above 70 but had an unfortunate duck and 15 in awful weather last match. Heading into the 8th match of the season he got called up for the England test squad.

On the one hand he's a player I signed off the youth list and only got to use for 7 matches before his call-up but I'm not surprised at all. A 22 year old with FC career stats of 67.2 after 19 matches, including 5 100s and 11 more 50s? You bet he's getting a run in the test squad.

My only hope is that they don't take him for OD and T20 too but honestly, with his stats so far and the way he plays I think he'll be the next Joe Root and taken for every match possible when fit. And that's fine, a star player should absolutely be given a chance at that age. Now fingers crossed that another batsman can step up to fill his boots.

Edit: He scored 42, 132 and 32* over his first two tests so I'd say it was a well deserved call up. A test avg of 103 so far isn't too bad!

[Wilted]

A 21 year old regen leggie from another domestic team just got called up to the Australian test squad. He's played a total of 13 FC matches with an average of 31 and a SR of 64. Decent for a rookie but nothing that should get him picked with such little experience. He also played just six T20s before getting called up to play in the T20 WC with a bowling average of 41.

On the other hand Wil Parker (leg spin) from my team, who is 26 has averaged ~25 for the last few seasons with a SR of 45 and was the leading FC wicket taker last year, doesn't get a look in. Despite that one of my reserve fast bowlers that I only play occasionally gets a regular call up.

The other regen in my domestic squad that plays for Australia (who admittedly is probably my best batsmen) averages 28 in tests but still gets picked for every series for four years straight. That's worse than Shane Watson and Mitch Marsh.

I'm glad my best bowlers aren't being picked but the AI selectors in this game are even more bizarre than in real life.

[cde]

It is really difficult to see why some of the international call-ups in my current save are making it into the test team, I have 7 players currently on a central contract but three in particular stand out:

A defensive opener who has averaged 38 over 48 FC games for me and hardly any LO matches and averages 33 in Tests and 41 in his three ODIs and 28 in the Huundred.

A very defensive opener who averages just 34 in FC matches and 53 in 11 OD matches at a S/R of 79. He has an average of 34 in Tests and despite a Hundred contract has never played a match.

I would keep the first guy on as ba k-up but the second would be gone if his central contract.

An OS bowled who averages a 28, 12 and just under 13 in FC, OD and T20 domestic leagues but 50, 52 and 93 on the international arena.

How he keeps getting picked for internationals I'll never know, I am looking at an all-rounder as a replacement.

[galvatron]

A 21 year old regen leggie from another domestic team just got called up to the Australian test squad. He's played a total of 13 FC matches with an average of 31 and a SR of 64. Decent for a rookie but nothing that should get him picked with such little experience. He also played just six T20s before getting called up to play in the T20 WC with a bowling average of 41.

On the other hand Wil Parker (leg spin) from my team, who is 26 has averaged ~25 for the last few seasons with a SR of 45 and was the leading FC wicket taker last year, doesn't get a look in. Despite that one of my reserve fast bowlers that I only play occasionally gets a regular call up.

The other regen in my domestic squad that plays for Australia (who admittedly is probably my best batsmen) averages 28 in tests but still gets picked for every series for four years straight. That's worse than Shane Watson and Mitch Marsh.

I'm glad my best bowlers aren't being picked but the AI selectors in this game are even more bizarre than in real life.

Most likely this guy will be an excellent player and the CPU can see that by looking at his underlying stats.

cde I'm also pissed at how some players get a central contract despite barely playing for England... Happens regularly.

[Wilted]

Most likely this guy will be an excellent player and the CPU can see that by looking at his underlying stats.

Yep, averaging 24 after his first series, which isn't bad for the first spinner to play for Australia since Lyon retired four years ago.

Since Lyon played his last test Australia has only bowled four overs of spin (all by 'never bowled a ball in his career' Pucovski). I guess that's another issue with selection, or moreso regens. Australia, New Zealand, South Africa and strangely Pakistan haven't picked a spinner for tests in the last three years. I can't check domestic team stats for the other countries but only two spinners have played domestic cricket in Australia as far back as the stats go, Wil Parker from my team and the regen that got picked for Australia. Only half of the Aus domestic teams have specialist spinners in their squad (five contracted spinners in total) but only the two mentioned before get picked.

Not sure where the problem comes from but I think it's worth addressing. If not in an update, then definitely by CC22 since it has been an issue for several editions.

[Chris_]

I have 3 spinners in my squad - two 'better' players and a reasonable backup. The primary pair have both alternated who gets the ENG central contract each year, but often it's been the player not being contracted who actually got taken to a series. This year both of them were given a central contract and got taken to the same test series, leaving me with only the backup. The backup has occasionally been picked for England but never been contracted.

From a Test perspective my two primary spinners average 27.8 at 57.4 SR and 32.4 at 49.2 SR. Not bad, but not the best. The 3rd/Backup player averages 22.17 at 39.2 SR, albeit in fewer tests..

2nd XI stats indicate that the backup is of lesser underlying ability than the first two so I understand why they're contracted ahead of him but you'd be disappointed if you were the 3rd bowler with those stats (and averaging more with the bat) and not getting picked.